TBMD, Pt. 3: Talking Musical DNA with Dorothy Brown (Copy)
Further exploring our musical DNA, through the lens of the of “Soul vs. classic soul vs. R&B?” question.
Such questions rarely have definitive answers. And maybe somewhat frustratingly, those answers will vary depending on whom you ask. But the beauty is in the intriguing discussions that follow…such as the one below, between myself and aunt Dorothy Brown.
Aunt Dot is a music lover, musician, and music educator. Born in 1954, she studied music in high school and college, and married a jazz musician (prominent pianist Donald Brown) in 1977. Together, they have raised an entire family of talented musicians I’m proud to call cousins.
Aunt Dot grew up enjoying the Soul & R&B of the ’60s and ’70s…and she’s always been one of my personal musical inspirations. Following is a great excerpt—with some edits and paraphrasing for clarity—from the discussion Dot and I had in November 2023:
Terry: The other day, a friend asked me: “What’s the difference between soul music and classic soul, or the difference between soul and R&B?” And so I put on my thinking cap. We talked about this idea of “musical DNA.” It's not a real term, or something you learn in school. But the idea is: If I have a musical identity that I grew up with, where did it come from? We both agreed that for most of us in our generation, our musical identity/DNA began with the music our parents listened to when we were growing up.
For example, uncle Ray was the one who introduced me, in a big way, to Prince…who’s been my musical hero ever since. To him, it probably wasn’t that big a deal…just another record, out of a million that he owned. But for me, Ray bringing home the 1999 album was a life changing event! [Laughter.]
That may be how I came into my own musical identity. But how did my dad come into his own? How did uncle Ray come into his? And Dot…how did you come into yours?
Dot: Well, I’m glad you ask. You’re right, Momma and Daddy didn't listen to the “hi-fi.” Well, I can’t really say that. They did like the variety shows, and a lot of those had music. I remember the musicians, and the songs they sang would be songs that Dad would play on the piano. It's amazing.
I remember when Daddy brought home our first piano. (Though I don’t recall how old I was.) But I didn't understand how this new thing could come into the house, sight unseen…and that be the first time I knew that Daddy knew anything about music, or that he could play piano.
And nobody else was interested [in playing the piano] but me. At least it seemed that way. Daddy would play songs like “Sentimental Journey” [Doris Day, 1945], and other songs. I can't remember them all now. But I knew them, because he taught them to me. I would just sit there and listen to him play…until, I guess, he got tired of me just sitting there. And he would call me [to the piano] and start teaching me songs that he knew.
Then he and Momma decided to give me piano lessons, which is why I learned how to play the piano. So a lot of the music I liked first came from [Momma and Daddy]…the songs that they heard, learned, and taught to me.
Momma loved Nat King Cole…and his music had an affect on me as well. I think that was my first identity.
Of course, I also remember sneaking and listening to your dad's collection, because he had Jimmy Smith, an organ player I loved. He also had some R&B, like Smokey Robinson & The Miracles, The Temptations, and some of the others. I would sneak and play them when he wasn't around. That formed part of my musical identity, too.
But I think that's mostly it…the music we listened to in our day. Then of course, being part of the band later in high school helped form another part of my musical identity.
Terry: Today, I talked to a friend who's younger, and also a musician. I asked how he came into his own musical identity. He was basically like, "Whatever my dad was listening to…that's what I would listen to. But there was also a lot of stuff I listened to that he never did.” Each person forms their own identity, ya know? You start off somewhere, and then just go from there. It's so interesting, all the ways people come into music.
Dot: Yeah…like [your uncle] Ray. Maxine and I were still in high school when Ray was traveling and performing. I remember his group rehearsing in the living room…and the kids from the neighborhood coming down into the yard to hear them rehearse. Those kinds of things also determine what you like.
When I think about our influences, I also remember…Momma's brothers. They had really nice voices. Uncle Walter and Uncle Archie. And I remember them singing. I guess they must have sang gospel…maybe even had a gospel group. (I’m not sure.) But I just remember them having really nice voices, and it seemed like they were singing gospel…the two of them together. I think Ray said they gave him his first amp, or guitar, or something.
But instead of telling about Ray…I’ll let you ask Ray. [Laughs.]
Dot: There was also a lot of ‘message music’ when we were growing up through the civil rights era. Especially in the late ‘60s, into the ‘70s, when you had songs like “What's Going On” with Marvin Gaye. Curtis Mayfield also addressed a lot of things.
But it's interesting that my kids—especially Donny—know a lot more of the groups and musicians of that era than I do. I might know a song because I recognize it. “Oh yeah…I grew up listening to that!” I might not remember who played it. But Donny will know exactly who played it and everything. So that kinda helped him form his [own musical identity].
But of course, my kids grew up listening to rap, and all that…so they have a whole different history. I say a different history. But like your friend said, part of their history is my history. Unfortunately, I was not one who could get into this new stuff. [Laughing.] I tried some of it, but it's harder, you know.
Terry: Actually, I think my own dad might have been more into rap music than I was. When he went back to school, he and [my cousin] Christina were at Memphis State together…and she hipped him to a lot of stuff he may not have been exposed to otherwise. (Reverse-DNA, I guess!)
Dot: Now, Christina had a weird collection of music…but she probably drew from a lot of different sources. Still, I was surprised to see how much your dad was into rap. He definitely knew more about it than I did. Even today, I might hear a rap song that sounds okay to me…but it probably wasn’t my choice to listen to it. Yeah!
Terry: You and [uncle] Donald have raised up a whole family of musicians…and I’m sure a lot of their musical identity came directly from y’all. [Laughs.]
Dot: Yeah, it did! And the era of music that we grew up with, our kids also grew up with it…because that's what we listened to. Even now, name almost any Stevie Wonder song from the 60s and 70s, and Keith can play it for you. Recent stuff too, of course. But I'm just saying, they like a lot of the artists that we did. Such as The Temptations, and others I can't even think of right now. Bootsy Collins, and all those people…[our kids] know more about them than I do. I know the music…so they do, too.
Terry: So…in order to properly answer my friend’s question, I had to do my research. Because there's a historical aspect to this, and I didn’t want to get it wrong. But you grew up closer to that [classic] era of music than I did. So what’s your take on soul music versus classic soul?
Dot: Well..to me, soul and R&B were about the same thing, when we were growing up. I don't know if I ever really made a distinction. The blues was different…you could hear it. But I just don't know that there's really a distinction between [soul and R&B]. Technically, there may be, for some people. If you talk to Donald, he might have a different answer. But to me, they were about the same thing.
Terry: I suppose the answer kinda depends on what your experience is.
Dot: Yeah. Donald might be more discriminating, as far as what he feels is soul versus R&B; that’s because he's into a lot of different types of music. Of course, he brought the influence of jazz to me. (Your dad had a few jazz albums that I would listen to, back then. But Donald brought a real influence.)
Terry: What kinds of music have you gotten into?
Dot: Well…the music I like most is R&B, of course. And some jazz. I like some of what people call “classics.” I knew I wasn't going to be able to think of any, off the top of my head. [Pause.] Umm…I can't think of one.
Terry: But “classics” as in classic soul, or just classical music…or what?
Dot: I'd say classic pop. Like “Moon River” [Audrey Hepburn, 1961] and “Sentimental Journey.” Daddy used to sing those songs. And I can think of other things he used to sing. But I like those kinds of songs. And I like certain blues…that whole influence. But I've never been into rock! [Laughing.]
Hard rock is even worse for me. And sorry to break it to you, but I did not like early Prince either. He was very talented…but I just didn't like him back then. Later Prince, maybe. But early Prince…no.
I even like some country music….even, what’s the guy’s name, Kenny Rogers. Those were some of the singers that I did like. Surprised?
Terry: I've started writing an essay [“Pt. 2” of this series] that includes comments from a discussion I had with my dad. The comments were, more or less, general. But he told me that, back when you guys were coming up, a big influence on him was WDIA and WLOK.
Dot: The black radio stations….yeah! Of course, being younger, I don't think I even knew there were other radio stations—that is, who played music I wanted to listen to. [Laughs.] And the transistor radio helped a lot, because then you were able to take your music with you, wherever you went…and you didn't have to bug your parents.
Although, Momma and Daddy never seemed to be irritated by the music we listened to. I don't know how it was when you guys (you and Chris) were growing up. But I never knew them to say, “Hey, cut off that junk!” They just never seemed to be bothered by what we listened to.
Terry: You and [uncle] Donald have raised up a whole family of musicians…and I’m sure a lot of their musical identity came directly from y’all. [Laughs.]
Dot: Yeah, it did! And the era of music that we grew up with, our kids also grew up with it…because that's what we listened to. Even now, name almost any Stevie Wonder song from the 60s and 70s, and Keith can play it for you. Recent stuff too, of course. But I'm just saying, they like a lot of the artists that we did. Such as The Temptations, and others I can't even think of right now. Bootsy Collins, and all those people…[our kids] know more about them than I do. I know the music…so they do, too.